- Hutchinson described Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and House Republicans holding strategy sessions.
- At least five House Republicans sought pardons, according to Hutchinson.
- Meadows used encrypted Signal communications and reportedly burned documents after meetings.
WASHINGTON – The House committee investigating the Capitol attack Jan. 6, 2021, is holding an abruptly scheduled hearing Tuesday with testimony from former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson and "recently obtained evidence."
- Testimony concludes: Committee members came up to embrace Cassidy Hutchinson as she left the room. Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., first, who hugged her, followed by Reps. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., and Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.
- Trump's Jan. 6 speech: There was genuine concern in the White House over the 25th Amendment being invoked and removing Trump as president, which was part of how Trump was convinced to give a speech.
- Meadows, Stone and Flynn: Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows spoke with Roger Stone and Michael Flynn the night before the Capitol attack “regarding what would play out the next day,”
- Trump reacts: Within the first half of her testimony, Trump reacted to Hutchinson on his Truth Social website. "I hardly know who this person, Cassidy Hutchinson, is, other than I heard very negative things about her," Trump said in a post.
- 'Mike deserves that': Hutchinson said she overheard Trump, Mark Meadows and Trump lawyers in the White House discuss the chants of “Hang Mike Pence” as rioters attacked the Capitol on Jan. 6. Meadows told White House attorney Pat Cipollone, who urged action, that Trump "thinks Mike deserves that. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong."
- Barr spurs Trump to throw his lunch. Furious after Attorney General Bill Barr announced in December 2020 he found no evidence of widespread voter fraud to the Associated Press, Trump threw his lunch against the wall, according to Hutchinson.
- Weapons at the Ellipse. On the morning of Jan. 6, 2021, police said there were men within walking distance of the Ellipse armed with AR-15-style rifles and Glock-style pistols. Some hid out in trees.
- Trump was warned not to march to Capitol. Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide to former President Donald Trump, said White House counsel Pat Cipollone voiced concerns repeatedly about Trump’s plan to march to the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, as potentially illegal. “Please make sure we don’t go up to the Capitol, Cassidy,” Hutchinson quoted Cipollone as telling her the morning of Jan. 6.
- 'Oathkeeper' and 'Proud Boys': Cassidy Hutchinson said that while in the White House, she heard the words “Oathkeeper” and “Proud Boys” as Jan. 6 drew closer.
Day 6 of Jan. 6 hearingsrecap:Miss Day 6 of the Jan. 6 hearing? Trump knew mob was armed and dangerous, bombshell witness says
Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former acting chief of staff, on Cassidy Hutchinson: “I know her. I don’t think she is lying.”
Mick Mulvaney – the acting chief of staff under former Pres. Donald Trump from Jan. 2019 to March 2020 – tweeted during the committee hearing that there was “no one closer” to Trump than special assistant to the Chief of Staff Cassidy Hutchinson.
He said that as a top aide, Hutchinson would be covered by the same “executive privilege” as former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows or Assistant to the President Peter Navarro, and that “If she can testify, then so can they.”
Mulvaney said he expected to hear from former Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Tony Ornato, former Assistant Attorney General Steven Engel and Meadows before the hearings were concluded.
“One thing is clear in my mind: Meadows will get indicted for his failure to appear. My guess is that ultimately he shows,” Mulvaney said.
– Katherine Swartz
Thompson: 'Serious discussion' about Cippolone being interviewed or testifying
Select Committee Chair Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., told reporters that former special assistant to the chief of staff Cassidy Hutchinson had four separate interviews before testifying because “the legal advice she was receiving didn’t allow her to be as forthcoming as we thought."
Once Hutchinson changed attorneys – from the Trump White House chief ethics lawyer to Jody Hunt, a longtime ally of former Trump administration Attorney General Jeff Sessions – "she began to open up more and more about what was happening around January 6,” Thompson said.
Following Hutchinson’s testimony on Tuesday, Thompson said he expected there would be “serious discussion” in the committee about inviting former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone to be interviewed or testify.
Hutchinson repeatedly mentioned Cipollone as one of the most outspoken in Trump’s inner circle, imploring Trump to speak out against the rioters on both Jan. 6 and 7.
– Chelsey Cox, Katherine Swartz
Raskin: Committee will look into witness tampering
Speaking to reporters after the hearing, U.S. Representative Jamie Raskin, R-Md, said the Jan. 6 committee looks to investigate further into tampering of witnesses, after two witnesses told the committee they had been pressured into testifying in favor of former President Donald Trump.
“It's a crime to tamper with witnesses, it’s a form of obstructing justice,” Raskin said. “The committee won't tolerate it and we haven’t had a chance to fully investigate it or fully discuss it, but it's something we want to look into.”
As for looking into potential crimes – either tampering or by others involved in the Jan. 6 attack – Raskin said that falls under the Justice Department’s jurisdiction.
He said the committee plans to release a list of recommendations following the end of the hearings about how to “safeguard the integrity of our government and how to make sure that elections don't come under attack.”
– Dylan Wells, Katherine Swartz
Magnetometer:What are 'mags,' and why did ex-Meadows aide bring them up at the Jan. 6 hearings?
Thompson and Jan. 6 committee put pressure on other witnesses
One apparent reason for this emergency hearing on Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony: Pressuring high-level Trump aides to testify about the president's Jan. 6 actions.
In a closing statement, committee Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., told potential witnesses, "if you've suddenly remembered things you forgot, or gained some courage ... our door is open."
Thompson did not use names, but was obviously referring to people like White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and Chief of Staff Mark Meadows; Hutchinson testified at length about them and others involved with Trump's handling of Jan. 6.
Praising Hutchinson, Thompson had a warning for others: "Because of this courageous woman and others like her, your attempt to hide the truth from the American people will fail."
– David Jackson
Witnesses being told ‘Trump does read transcripts’
Witnesses sitting for depositions in front of the Jan. 6 committee have received calls from former colleagues advising them about how they should testify before the committee, Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., said Tuesday, saying the practice raises “very serious concerns."
One witness described a caller talking about “protecting who I need to protect” and being a “team player,” according to written text of the exchange with the unnamed witness shared by the committee Tuesday. “They have reminded me a couple of times that Trump does read transcripts and just to keep that in mind as I proceed with my interviews.”
Another witness testified, “[A person] let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. He wants me to let you nkoow that he’s thinking about you. He knows you’re loyal, and you’re going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition,” according to the committee.
– Erin Mansfield
Trump urged to condemn Jan. 6 attack over concerns of 25th Amendment
Trump was extremely reluctant to release a statement condemning the Capitol attack the day after Jan. 6. Former aide to Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson, told the committee a group of White House staffers had to convince him to give a speech.
“Mark (Meadows), Ivanka (Trump), Jared Kushner, Eric Herschmann, Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, those are people I’m aware of,” said Hutchinson, recalling who was in the group that convinced Trump. “Kayleigh McEnany as well.”
There was genuine concern in the White House over the 25th Amendment being invoked and removing Trump as president, which was part of how Trump was convinced to give a speech.
– Kenneth Tran
Giuliani and Meadows both wanted presidential pardons related to Jan. 6
Former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani both sought pardons from Trump in relation to Jan. 6, said Cassidy Hutchinson, former assistant to Meadows.
The two are the latest in a growing list of Trump allies who Hutchinson knew sought pardons.
In last week’s hearing, Hutchinson testified that GOP lawmakers Mo Brooks, Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Louie Gohmert and Scott Perry all sought pardons as well.
– Katherine Swartz
Cheney: People spoke of invoking the 25th Amendment against Trump
Hutchinson and Cheney discussed post-Jan. 6 talk from prominent officials about invoking the 25th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution against Trump, removing him from office for incapacity.
The 25th Amendment was "a way of stripping the full power of the presidency from Donald Trump," Cheney said.
Hutchinson said officials discussed the amendment as a way to give themselves "cover" for their own actions. No one followed through on the 25th Amendment idea.
Instead, the U.S. House voted to impeach Trump for a second time.
– David Jackson
Fox News host and Trump Jr. texted Meadows
Fox News host Laura Ingraham and Donald Trump Jr. texted chief of staff Mark Meadows on the afternoon of Jan. 6, 2021 saying that the president needed to condemn the violence taking place at the Capitol.
“Hey mark, the president needs to tell people in the capitol to go home,” Ingraham wrote at the beginning of a series of three tweets. “This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy and playing into every stereotype. We lose all credibility against the BLM/antifa crowd if things go south.”
“He’s got to condemn this sh—,” Trump Jr. texted. “Asap. The capitol police tweet is not enough.”
– Erin Mansfield
Ivanka Trump wanted her father to send people home
Ivanka Trump said on multiple occasions on Jan. 6 that she wanted her father to implore rioters to go home, following the same advice of White House counsel urging former President Donald Trump to take “swift action.”
“She wanted her dad to tell them to go home peacefully and she wanted to include language that he necessarily wasn’t on board with at the time,” former special assistant Cassidy Hutchinson said.
– Katherine Swartz
Hutchinson 'disgusted' at Trump's attack on Pence
Hutchinson said that, as a staff member, she was disappointed at a Trump tweet on Jan. 6 attacking Vice President Mike Pence, even as he was under threat of death by Trump rioters. Outside of her job, Hutchinson said she had a different reaction
"As an American, I was disgusted," Hutchinson said. "It was unpatriotic. It was un-American."
She said Pence and the Capitol were under attack over a Trump lie about election fraud.
– David Jackson
‘I read that tweet and made a decision at that moment to resign’
Former Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger told the committee he made the immediate decision to resign after seeing Trump’s tweet that former Vice President Mike Pence didn’t have the “courage” to overturn the election.
On the day of the Capitol attack, as rioters breached the Capitol, a member of Pottinger’s staff handed him a printout of Trump’s tweet.
“I read that tweet and made a decision at that moment to resign,” said Pottinger. “That’s where I knew I was leaving that day, once I had read that tweet.”
– Kenneth Tran
‘He doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong,’ chief of staff said of Trump on threats to Pence
Hutchinson said she overheard Trump, Mark Meadows and Trump lawyers in the White House discuss the chants of “Hang Mike Pence” as rioters attacked the Capitol on Jan. 6.
She recalled Trump White House attorney Pat Cipollone telling Meadows, “We need to do something.”
“You heard it, Pat,” Meadows said, according to Hutchinson. “He thinks Mike deserves that. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. To which Pat said something to the effect of, 'This is f---ing crazy.'"
– Joey Garrison
Meadows: Trump ‘doesn’t want to do anything’ about violence at Capitol
Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told White House lawyer Pat Cipollone on Jan. 6, 2021, that President Donald Trump didn’t want to do anything to stop the violence that was taking place at the Capitol, according to Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony.
Cipollone came “barrelling toward our office,” Hutchinson said, before opening the door, shaking his head, and telling Meadows that the rioters had made it to the Capitol. He urged Meadows to come with him to go speak to Trump.
“He doesn’t want to do anything, Pat,” Hutchinson said Meadows said, and Hutchinson says Cipollone responded, “Mark, something needs to be done. People are going to die and the blood is going to be on your f---ing hands. This is out of control. I’m going down there.”
– Erin Mansfield
Hutchinson: Meadows 'needs to snap out of this'
When Cassidy Hutchinson, former special assistant to ex-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, saw the rioters were getting closer to the Capitol, she went into Meadows’ office to see if he was aware of what’s going on.
She found him “sitting on his couch on his cellphone,” not paying attention to the news.
Hutchinson said seeing the rioters get closer felt like watching “a bad car accident that’s about to happen where you can’t stop it, but you want to be able to do something.”
“I remember thinking in that moment, “Mark needs to snap out of this, and I don’t know how to snap him out of this, but he needs to care,” Hutchinson said.
– Katherine Swartz
Flynn took the 5th when asked about peaceful transitions of power
Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows spoke with Roger Stone and Michael Flynn the night before the Capitol attack “regarding what would play out the next day,” according to Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo.
Hutchinson confirmed to the committee that Meadows spoke with both Stone and Flynn, but was “not sure” the exact contents of the conversations.
Stone was at the Capitol attack and had “multiple members of the Oathkeepers who were allegedly serving as his security detail,” said Cheney. In deposition to the committee, Flynn exercised his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination when asked if violence at the Capitol was justified.
– Kenneth Tran
Trump reacts to witness Cassidy Hutchinson, claims he barely knew her
The former president issued a number of statements during the hearing attacking Hutchinson.
"I hardly know who this person, Cassidy Hutchinson, is, other than I heard very negative things about her," Trump said in a post on the Truth Social website.
In an initial statement, Trump did not address any specifics of Hutchinson's testimony. They included statements that he knew Jan. 6 protesters had weapons and that he lunged at a Secret Service agent in an effort to grab the steering wheel of the presidential SUV to drive to the U.S. Capitol.
In subsequent posts, Trump denied wanting to see protesters with weapons or trying to grab the wheel of his vehicle.
Said Trump: "She is bad news!"
Note: Other Trump White House aides of Jan. 6 issued statements during the day defending Hutchinson, and praising her testimony.
– David Jackson
On 'mags':What are 'mags,' and why did ex-Meadows aide bring them up at the Jan. 6 hearings?
Alyssa Farah Griffin defends Cassidy Hutchinson
A conservative commentator who previously worked as an assistant to President Donald Trump defended Cassidy Hutchinson, the former principal aide to chief of staff Mark Meadows who is testifying in front of the Jan. 6 committee.
“People of sound mind don’t reach to try to grab a steering wheel, from the backseat, to drive to the Capitol to overturn a democratic election,” Farah Griffin tweeted, referencing Hutchinson’s testimony about Trump’s behavior that day.
“Cassidy Hutchinson is 25 years old and has more courage than many elected members of Congress more than twice her age,” she also wrote.
– Erin Mansfield
Arizona Rep. Ruben Gallego: Trump 'had insurrection on his mind'
“Like a lot of insurrection leaders, he knew his insurgents, and he knew how to motivate them,” Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., told reporters during the hearing recess.
“There's no such thing as this many coincidences in life. The fact that the Oathkeepers, the Proud Boys, they all showed up. They all had weaponry, that they happened to stick outside the magnetometers, the fact that he knew that they weren't dangerous,” Gallego said.
“The fact that he was trying to get to the Capitol to basically lead them into the Capitol, you know, tells you that this president had insurrection on his mind, was trying to interfere with Congress's duty to certify the election,” Gallego said. “The question is, what happens next and where is (Attorney General) Merrick Garland in all of this?”
– Dylan Wells
Angry Trump threw dinner against the wall after Barr announced there was no voter fraud
Furious after Attorney General Bill Barr announced he found no evidence of widespread voter fraud to the Associated Press, Trump threw his lunch against the wall, according to Hutchinson.
Hutchinson said she saw a broken porcelain plate in the White House dining room following the Dec. 20, 2020, incident and "ketchup dripping down the wall."
“The valet had articulated that the president was extremely angry at the Attorney General's AP interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall,” Hutchinson said.
Such tantrums were not uncommon by Trump, she said.
“There were several times throughout my tenure with the chief of staff that I was aware of either him throwing dishes or flipping the tablecloth to let all the contents of the table go onto the floor and likely break or go everywhere,” Hutchinson said.
– Joey Garrison
Trump grabbed steering wheel, lunged at aide
Former President Donald Trump was under the impression he was heading to the Capitol following his rally.
"I'm the f---ing president. Take me to the Capitol now," Trump said, according to Hutchinson.
When he was told he wasn't going, Trump, sitting in the back of his SUV in the motorcade, reached forward and tried to grab the steering wheel in order to move the vehicle in the direction of the Capitol, even though aides said he had to go back to the White House. He later lunged at his security chief in an apparent attempt to choke him.
Hutchinson said she heard this story in the White House from Trump’s deputy chief of staff, Tony Ornato. She said Trump’s security chief Robert Engel, who had been in the car with Trump, was in the room with them. At no point did Engel correct the story, Hutchinson said.
“Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, ‘Sir, you need to take your arm off the steering wheel,’” Hutchinson testified. “’We’re going back to the West Wing. We’re not going to the Capitol.’ Mr Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel and when Mr. Ornato recounted this story for me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.”
She also said that White House lawyer Pat Cipollone warned her that if Trump went to the Capitol to follow his supporters on Jan.6, they "would be charged with every crime."
– Erin Mansfield and Merdie Nzang
Hutchinson: White House counsel warns of Trump being charged if he marched on Capitol
Hutchinson, an aide to former President Donald Trump, said White House counsel Pat Cipollone voiced concerns repeatedly about Trump’s plan to march to the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, as potentially illegal.
“Please make sure we don’t go up to the Capitol, Cassidy,” Hutchinson quoted Cipollone as telling her the morning of Jan. 6. “Keep in touch with me. We’re going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen.”
Trump never walked to the Capitol. But he said he would during his speech on the Ellipse that morning. Cipollone warned Hutchinson that Trump could be charged with obstructing justice or defrauding the count of Electoral College ballots if he did that.
“We need to make sure that this doesn’t happen,” Hutchinson quoted Cipollone as telling her Jan. 3. “This would be legally a terrible idea for us. We have serious legal concerns if we go up to the Capitol that day.”
– Bart Jansen
Trump wanted to go to the Capitol with Jan. 6 protesters
Multiple White House aides told the committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack that Trump wanted to accompany the Jan. 6 rally attendees on their march to the Capitol.
Max Miller, former White House aide, said Trump had a desire to drive down to the Capitol after his speech “came up” in conversation.
“He brought it up. He said ‘I wanted to go down to the Capitol.’”
Another former White House aide, Nick Luna, said Trump wanted to “march” to the Capitol with the protestors. “I was aware of the desire of the president to potentially march, or accompany the rally attendees to the Capitol.”
– Kenneth Tran
Hutchinson: Trump's lawyers were concerned he was inciting a riot
Hutchinson told the committee that White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and other lawyers stressed to Trump and aides that marching to the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, could expose him to a number of criminal charges – including inciting a riot.
It would look like "we were inciting a riot or were encouraging a riot," Hutchinson recalled the White House counsel saying.
A riot is exactly what happened when Trump's supporters showed up at the Capitol after Trump's fiery rally speech.
Other potential charges included obstruction of justice and defrauding the electoral vote count, Hutchinson said in quoting White House lawyers.
– David Jackson
Trump attorneys worried about legal ramifications of Trump’s speech on Jan. 6
Hutchinson said Trump lawyers had “many discussions” on the morning of Jan. 6 about their concerns of what Trump planned to say in his speech outside the White House.
Eric Herschmann, one of the attorneys, said Trump would be “foolish” to include language that the president requested in which the president would say, “We're gonna march the Capitol. I'll be there with you. Fight for me. Fight for what we're doing. Fight for the movement.”
Later, Trump attorney Pat Cipollone said it would be a “legally terrible idea for us” if Trump followed through and marched to the Capitol while Congress counted electoral votes.
– Joey Garrison
Meadows had 'lack of reaction' to violence at the Capitol
Hutchinson, principal aide to chief of staff Mark Meadows, said she tried repeatedly to tell Meadows about violence at the Capitol while Capitol Police were being overrun by attackers.
A couple of times before she was able to tell him, she opened a door to a car he was in, and he closed it. She said a backlog of information she needed to relay to him built up. When she was finally able to pass on information about violence at the Capitol, she said he barely reacted.
“He almost had a lack of reaction,” Hutchinson said. “I remember him saying, ‘All right,’ something to the effect of, ‘How much longer does the president have left in his speech?’”
– Erin Mansfield
Despite threat of violence, Trump was 'furious' there was extra space at Ellipse
In text messages between former Deputy Chief of Staff Anthony Ornado and former aide to Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson, Trump was “f—ing furious,” at there being extra space at the Ellipse prior to the Capitol attack.
“He was furious because he wanted the area that we had on the Ellipse to be maxed out at capacity for all attendees.” Trump was told that everyone who wanted to attend was already there, but Hutchinson said he was still angry.
When looking at photos of the crowd, Trump was “very concerned about the shot, meaning the photograph that we would get because the rally space wasn’t full.”
– Kenneth Tran
Rally attendees had weapons
"People who willingly entered the enclosed area for President Trump's speech so they could attend the rally had weapons and other items that were confiscated," Rep. Liz Cheney said.
Police said they saw people armed with AR-15 walking toward the White House.
– Merdie Nzanga
Meadows stared at phone while told about weapons on Jan. 6
Hutchinson said Meadows did not look up from his phone when Tony Ornato, White House deputy chief of staff of operations, informed him that rioters who were gathered for a Trump rally outside the White House on Jan. 6 had weapons.
She recalled Meadows remained looking down at this phone for a few seconds. He then asked her what she was hearing.
“And I looked at Tony and I was like, ‘Sorry, I just told you about what was happening.'"
Trump supporters with weapons later made their way down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol.
– Joey Garrison
Trump didn't 'care that they have weapons. They’re not here to hurt me'
In the backstage area of Trump’s rally held on Jan. 6, Hutchinson overheard Trump tell staff that he didn’t care whether people had weapons, to let them into the rally area because “they’re not here to hurt me.”
Hutchinson said Trump was upset at the size of his rally crowd and was primarily angry that staff wasn’t letting through his supporters that were carrying weapons.
“Let the people in, take the f–ing mags away,” Trump said, referring to magnetrometers, or metal detectors.
– Katherine Swartz
Hutchinson: Security chief briefed Trump about weapons in Ellipse crowd
Hutchinson said the deputy chief of staff, Tony Ornato, notified Trump before 10 a.m. on Jan. 6, 2021, about people on the Ellipse carrying weapons including flagpoles, sticks, spears, knives and guns including pistols and rifles.
Former chief of staff Mark Meadows didn’t react to his own briefing by Ornato. But then he looked up and said, ‘Have you talked to the president?’” according to Hutchinson. “Tony said, ‘Yes, sir. He’s aware too.’ He said, ‘All right, good.’”
The vice chair of the committee, Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., asked Hutchinson to reinforce that Ornato had briefed the president about weapons at the location where he was about to give a speech.
“That’s what Mr. Ornato relayed to me,” Hutchinson said.
– Bart Jansen
Police saw men with rifles, handguns hiding in trees near Trump’s rally
On the morning of Jan. 6, 2021, police said there were men within walking distance of the ellipse armed with AR-15-style rifles and Glock-style pistols. Some hid out in trees.
In radio communication played by the Jan. 6 committee Tuesday, police said two complainants saw the stock of an AR-15 under one man’s jacket. Another police officer described three men in fatigues walking with AR-15 rifles.
“Look for the don’t tread on me flag,” one officer said describing a man in a tree. “American flag face mask. Cowboy boots. Weapon on the right side hip.”
– Erin Mansfield
Intelligence reports showed potential for violence of Jan. 6
Hutchinson testified that White House Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornado had received intelligence reports saying there was potential for violence on Jan. 6.
As deputy chief of staff, Ornado was responsible for security protocols between the White House and the Secret Service, which also received reports of violence and weapons in the leadup to Jan. 6.
– Katherine Swartz
Aide recalled hearing 'Oathkeeper' and 'Proud Boys' during Jan. 6 planning
Cassidy Hutchinson said that while in the White House, she heard the words “Oathkeeper” and “Proud Boys” as Jan. 6 drew closer.
“I recall hearing the words ‘Oathkeeper’ and the words ‘Proud Boys,’ closer to the planning of the January 6 rally when Mr. Giuliani would be around,” said Hutchinson, in deposition to the Jan. 6 committee.
Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., also revealed that on Jan. 3, U.S. Capitol Police issued a report noting “that the Proud Boys and other groups planned to be in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6,” and that they targeted Congress rather than counter-protestors.
– Kenneth Tran
Learn more:Cassidy Hutchinson to testify at Jan. 6 hearing. Who is the former aide to Mark Meadows?
Hutchinson: DNI Ratcliffe considered Trump fighting election results ‘dangerous’
Hutchinson said the director of national intelligence, John Ratcliffe, avoided involvement in the administration’s post-election agenda of fighting the results of the 2020 election.
Ratcliffe, a former Republican member of the House from Texas, thought searching for missing ballots and challenging election results in specific states would hurt former President Donald Trump’s legacy, according to Hutchinson.
“He had expressed concern that it could spiral out of control and potentially be dangerous either for our democracy or the way that things were going for the Sixth,” Hutchinson said in videotaped testimony to the committee. “He felt that there could be dangerous repercussions.”
– Bart Jansen
Hutchinson: Trump and top aides knew that Jan. 6 could get dangerous
Hutchinson recounted how a number of White House officials expressed fears that the Jan. 6, 2021, election protests could get violent because of extremist groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers - and that Trump had to know as well.
On tape, Hutchison talked about how national security adviser Robert O'Brien wanted to meet with Meadows about the potential for violence.
"I was apprehensive about the 6th," Hutchinson told the committee at one point.
The committee is trying to prove that Trump and his allies knew that Jan. 6 could get dangerous – yet egged on their supporters anyway.
– David Jackson
‘Scared and nervous’ after talking to Giuliani, Meadows
Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to Mark Meadows, said she started feeling “scared and nervous” about what could happen on Jan. 6 after talking to Meadows about comments made by Rudy Giuliani.
Hutchinson relayed Giuliani’s comments to Meadows.
“He didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of there's a lot going on … Things might get real, real bad on January 6,” Meadows said, according to Hutchinson.
“That evening was the first moment that I remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on January 6,” Hutchinson said.
– Joey Garrison
Meadows told aide, ‘Things might get real, real bad’
Former President Donald Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows told his principal aide, Cassidy Hutchinson, that “Things might get real, real bad on Jan. 6,” according to Hutchinson’s testimony on Tuesday.
Hutchinson said went to Meadows after walking Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani to his car on the evening of Jan. 2, 2021, four days before the insurrection attempt. Giuliani asked her, “Cass, are you excited for the sixth?” she testified. “It’s going to be a great day.”
When Hutchinson asked Giuliani what was going to happen on Jan. 6, she says he told her, “We’re going to the Capitol. It’s going to be great. The president’s going to be there. He’s going to look powerful.” He also told her to go to Meadows: “Talk to the chief about it.”
– Erin Mansfield
Who is Cassidy Hutchinson?
Hutchinson was a special assistant to the president for legislative affairs and aide to Meadows. She told the panel she attended key meetings and often knew about meetings involving Trump and Meadows.
“Almost all, if not all, meetings Mr. Trump had, I had insight on,” Hutchinson told the panel.
Hutchinson described White House strategy sessions where lawmakers discussed how to reject electors from specific states. She said how Meadows communicated with encrypted applications such as Signal. She said Meadows burned documents in his office fireplace after meeting with Rep. Scott Perry, R-Pa., according to reports in The New York Times and Politico.
And Hutchinson said Meadows described Trump as speaking approvingly of rioters chanting "Hang Mike Pence" while ransacking the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Trump denied using the phrase. Meadows has defied a committee subpoena to testify, and the House cited him for contempt.
What did Hutchinson say about White House meetings with lawmakers?
Hutchinson named the lawyers and lawmakers who met repeatedly with White House officials during December to challenge electors in several states Trump lost.
She said the strategy sessions in person and by phone included Reps. Andy Biggs of Arizona, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Louie Gohmert of Texas, Paul Gosar of Arizona, Jody Hice of Georgia, Jim Jordan of Ohio, Debbie Lesko of Arizona and Perry.
What did Hutchinson say about fake electors?
Trump's lawyer John Eastman proposed a scheme for seven states President Joe Biden won to submit alternate sets of electors to Congress, to potentially delay certification of the results or overturn the election.
After White House officials met with advisers outside the executive branch, such as Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, Hutchinson said the White House counsel's office called the strategy "not legally sound," according to one of her depositions.
She said the counsel office's guidance ran along the lines of: "That's not legal, we're not putting ourselves in that line of fire" or "Don't raise that to Mr. Trump, it's not appropriate, and it's not a legal theory we want to entertain right now."
What has Hutchinson said about pardons?
Hutchinson described in videotaped testimony Thursday how lawmakers who attended the meeting Dec. 21, 2020, such as Biggs, Brooks, Gaetz, Gohmert and Perry, sought pardons.
John McEntee, former director of the White House presidential personnel office, also described Trump as considering a blanket pardon. And Eric Herschmann, a former White House lawyer, said there was a general discussion of pardons for those who defended Trump.
"I guess Mr. Gaetz and Mr. Brooks, I know, have both advocated for there'd be a blanket pardon for members involved in that meeting," Hutchinson said. "Mr. Gaetz was personally pushing for a pardon, and he was doing so since early December."
Each of the lawmakers denied wrongdoing. Biggs, Gohmert and Perry denied asking for a pardon.
Gaetz called the investigation a witch hunt. Brooks defended his pardon request by saying Democrats could abuse the judicial process by prosecuting Republicans.
What did we learn on Thursday?
Here are three highlights from the committee's last hearing on Thursday:
- Trump wanted the DOJ to "lend credibility" to his claims of election fraud and told agency heads to "leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen," according to evidence.
- Trump sought to replace then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen with Clark, an environmental lawyer. The committee presented a draft letter written by Clark addressed to Georgia legislative leaders which falsely alluded to possible voter fraud in key states.
- A roster of GOP lawmakers, including Reps. Mo Brooks of Alabama, Matt Gaetz of Florida and Andy Biggs of Arizona, asked for presidential pardons the day after Jan. 6, 2021, according to aides.
Hutchinson: Meadows traveled to Georgia to monitor vote count
Meadows traveled Dec. 22, 2020, to Cobb County, Georgia, where he met without an appointment with Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs to visit a building where ballot signatures were being audited. Hutchinson said Meadows was visiting his son in Georgia for Christmas, so monitoring the ballot counting was convenient.
"He wanted to do more of a status check to see where they were at with things, if they had thoughts that they needed any more resources, if there was anything that the White House could do to help ease the process along," Hutchinson said.
Why is the panel holding this hastily called hearing?
The hearing, which was announced Monday after committee members said they wouldn't hold another until late July, will be the sixth in June.
Previous sessions featured testimony about police injuries during the riot, about former President Trump's aides telling him lost the election, and his pressure on state officials, Vice President Mike Pence and on Justice Department officials.
The chairman, Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said Thursday the investigation continues and new information is pouring in.
"Those hearings have spurred an influx of new information that the committee and our investigators are working to assess," Thompson said.
Documentary evidence
Among the new evidence, a British documentarian provided the panel with previously unreleased recordings of exclusive interviews with Trump, his children and former Vice President Mike Pence before and after the Capitol attack.
Alex Holder said in a tweeted statement he began the project in September 2020 and hadn’t expected the recordings to be subpoenaed. His lawyer said the Trump's had no editorial control over the video.
The recordings are scheduled to be part of a three-part series to be released this summer called, “Unprecedented.”
